2023-05-10 14:56:27
舒伯特《降B大调第一号钢琴三重奏》
【编译小组编者按】埃格纳钢琴三重奏即将登陆上海保利大剧院，这是我们在保利剧院的朋友的帮助下，约到的对埃格纳的访谈。我们尽量把问题面向乐迷和专业学生——但又不过分专业，以免曲高和寡——希望大家能够感受到埃格纳对音乐的执着与热爱！并欢迎大家到现场聆听音乐会！也希望这种访谈的形式，能够去抑或不去现场听音乐会的朋友，更好的了解我们本期节目的艺术家与当晚的作品。具体演出信息，详见文末图片以及阅读原文。
2018年3月16日
上海保利大剧院
埃格纳钢琴三重奏音乐会
Eggner Piano Trio
节目单
（来自上海保利大剧院公众号）
贝多芬：降E大调第二号钢琴三重奏，作品70
Beethoven：Trio Es-Dur, Op. 70, No .2
编者按：这个编号，应该是第六号钢琴三重奏
I. 柔板，活泼的快板
I. Poco sostenuto. Allegro ma non troppo
II. 小快板
II. Allegretto
III. 不太快的快板
III. Allegretto ma non troppo
IV..终曲，小快板
IV. Finale. Allegro
舒伯特:降E大调柔板, D.897 “夜曲”
Schubert :Adagio Es-Dur, "Notturno", op. post. 148/D 898
梅纽因演绎版本
中场休息
舒伯特：降B大调第一号钢琴三重奏，作品99
Schubert :Trio B-Dur, op. 99/D 898
I. 不太快的快板
I. Allegro moderato
II. 稍快的行板
II. Andante un poco mosso
III. 谐谑曲，快板
III. Scherzo. Allegro
IV. 生动的，快板
IV. Rondo. Allegro vivace
大提琴卡萨尔斯、小提琴家蒂博、钢琴科尔托版本
埃格纳钢琴三重奏访谈
谷宇飞：如果交响乐是宣言，独奏是独白，那么室内乐是什么？什么是室内乐的精神所在？
The Eggner Trio：室内乐是两个人以上的窃窃私语，一种人们以音乐的语言表达爱、尊重或憎恨的方式。
Q：If the symphony is a declaration and the solo is monologue, what is chamber music? What is the spirit of chamber music?
A：Chamber music is the intimate communication between at least two people. A discussion where people love, respect or hate each other in a musical way.
谷宇飞：埃格纳钢琴三重奏已经不是第一次来中国演出了，比如2016年9月就曾到访过中国的无锡、舟山、重庆、长沙等地（真是一趟辛苦的旅程），不知道上次的演出经历是否美好？有什么值得回忆的故事？抑或不太满意的地方？我们特别希望听到一些批评，因为批评令人进步。
The Eggner Trio：我们很难去谈论那些不好的事情，因为每场音乐会对我们的意义都是独一无二无可替代的。我们在中国度过了一段美好的时光，我们非常喜欢游览这个美丽的国家。
Q：Eggner piano Trio (The Eggner price) is not The first time to China play, such as in September 2016, has visited China wuxi, zhoushan, chongqing, changsha and other places (such a hard journey), don't know whether The last performance experience is good? What are the stories worth recalling?Or less satisfied?We particularly want to hear some criticism, because criticism is making progress.
A：It is very hard to talk about things that are not good because every concert is unique and special. We had such a great time in China and love to Tour through this beautiful country.
谷宇飞：这次埃格纳钢琴三重奏又来到了中国（比如上海、重庆等地），带来的核心曲目跟上次有一定关联性，2018年将要演出的舒伯特《降B大调第一号钢琴三重奏》（Schubert :Trio B-Dur, op. 99/D 898）被人称作自2016年演出的贝多芬《第七号钢琴三重奏“大公”》（Beethoven: Erzherzog Trio op. 97）问世以来，最优秀的钢琴三重奏作品。不知道这样的选择安排是否有意为之？能否谈一下对这两部作品的一些理解？
The Eggner Trio：舒伯特三重奏是我们最喜欢的钢琴三重奏，因为我们是听着那首曲子长大的。这就像你看着一个小孩从小长到大但在多年以后，你忽然看到了一个或美丽的男人或女人，却无法相信从他一出生你就认识他或她。那是舒伯特给我们的感受。
Q：This time, the Eggner piano trio came to China again (such as Shanghai, chongqing, etc.), and the main pieces of music in the program have a certain degree of relevance with the previous ones.It is said that the “Schubert :Trio B-Dur, op. 99/D 898” （which will be played in 2018） is the best piano trio since 2016 when the playing of "Beethoven: Erzherzog Trio op.97" has been released？
A：The Schubert Trios is our most favourite piano Trio because we are grown up with that piece. It`s like having a child and you see it growing and after many years you see a beautiful man or womon and can`t believe that you know him or her for whole life long. That`s Schubert for us.
谷宇飞：广大乐迷只是知道埃格纳钢琴三重奏是三兄弟的组合，能否介绍一下你们谁是老大？谁是老二？以及自己的家庭背景对自己的影响，以及为何三兄弟最终选择了三件不同乐器——是专门为了组成三重奏团的原因吗？
The Eggner Trio：最年长的克里斯托弗弹钢琴——奥格里奥拉小提琴，拉大提琴的弗洛里奥是我们中最年轻的。我们是自己选择（学哪件）乐器，能组成一个钢琴三重奏完全是一个巧合。
Q：The majority of audience just know that the egger piano trio is a trio of brothers.Can you tell me who is the eldest?Who is the second brother?And why did the three brothers end up choosing three different instruments ---just for forming the trio?
A：Eldest Christoph, Piano – Georg middle one, Florian Cello youngest.We have chosen our instruments by ourselfs. It was a coincidents that we could form a piano trio.
谷宇飞：埃格纳钢琴三重奏自1997年成立，至今已经20多年，音乐究竟带给了你们什么？或者是作为音乐家，你们感到幸福吗？音乐是你们生活的全部吗？你们的家庭——如果已经有了自己的孩子——是否也在学习、从事音乐？是否也在组织室内乐团呢？未来埃格纳钢琴三重奏会有自己的接班人吗？
The Eggner Trio：音乐不仅是我们的工作，更是我的生命！作为一个音乐家，我们的痛苦和欢乐总是相伴而行的。对于我们这些生来就注定成为一个音乐家的人，除了音乐之外无路可走。成为一名音乐家是人生在世上天能赋予的最棒的礼物之一。如果我们的孩子也对此感同身受，那么他们肯定要去尝试实现它。
Q：Eggner piano trio has been established since 1997. It has been established for more than 20 years. What does music has brought to you over the past few years, ?Do you feel happy as musicians?Does music become your whole life?Your family ——if you already have your own children -- will you still let them learn to play music?Maybe let them organize another chamber band?Will the Eggner Piano trio have successors in the future?
A：Music is not only our job it is your life! As a musician you are always happy and sad at the same time. You are born to be a musician and there is no way out. To be a musician is one of the greatest gift in the whole world. If our children feel the same way to then they should definitely go for it.
谷宇飞：在中国，大家学习乐器的热情非常高，但对室内乐的热情并不是很高，不仅是中国的钢琴家傅聪先生（编者按：傅聪先生生日快乐丨听傅聪演奏肖邦、舒曼、莫扎特、贝多芬、德彪西与斯卡拉蒂），而且还有年轻的大提琴演奏家秦立巍先生（便编者按：秦立巍、殷巴尔与中国爱乐乐团音乐会），都不断呼吁大家重视室内乐，不要老想到独奏家或者成为郎朗。埃格纳钢琴三重奏如何看到乐器学习与室内乐的关系？室内乐到底意味着什么？中央音乐学院的张佳林老师曾撰文认为（搞室内乐以后能挣钱么丨关于国内室内乐现状的几个问题），室内乐属于小众音乐，很难被大众完全喜爱，所以并不需要普及给大众，是否如此？
The Eggner Trio：室内乐有很长的历史。最早期的时候，比如莫扎特或舒伯特时期的音乐。室内乐至关重要，因为你可以和其他音乐家一起演奏，并可以更好地了解他们。最早期的室内乐就是面向一小部分观众在室内进行表演。随着弦乐四重奏和钢琴三重奏的作品规模变得越来越大，现在它也在较大的场合进行演奏。但室内乐中所蕴含的内在和以往并没有什么不同，即室内乐能够使人们（无论是演奏者或观众）能够感到更加贴近于音乐本身。在大型交响乐团里，你很难有这种感觉。作为一个独奏者，演奏室内乐也是必不可少的，因为即使是一个独奏者也需要学会如何与管弦乐队沟通。
Q：In China,the enthusiasm of learning a musical instrument is very high, but as for the chamber music,the situation is not optimistic. Not only the Chinese pianist Mr Fu cong, but also Mr Young cellist Qin Liwei, are constantly urge philharmonic to pay attention to chamber music instead of always focusing on soloist or imagining to become lang lang.How to tell the relationship between instrument by learning and chamber music?What does chamber music mean?Zhang jialin ,which lectures at the central music college, wrote that chamber music belongs to the small mass music. It is difficult to be fully accepted by the mainstream, so it is not necessary to popularize it to the public.Is that right?
A：Chamber music has a very long history. At the beginning as in Mozart times or Schubert times it was necessary because you could play with other musicians and get to know them better. It was played in a chamber for a few people. Then String Quartetts and Pian Trio works got bigger and bigger and now it`s also played in big venues. But the idea is the same like in the old days. To get a very intimate feeling very close to music. You will hardly get this feeling with a big Synfonie Orchestra. Also as a individual player it is absolutely nessecary to play Chamber music. Also a s a Soloist because you learn how to communicate also with an orchestra.
谷宇飞：中国古典音乐的演出市场里，室内乐并不是很被重视，独奏与交响乐以及歌剧往往更受人关注。很多乐迷，甚至专业音乐学生，都搞不懂室内乐这个词的具体含义，到底什么是室内乐？如果一位完全不了解室内乐的人，想要从头开始接触室内乐，有哪些作曲家、作品以及属于埃格纳钢琴三重奏的聆听建议，可以提供给大家？
The Eggner Trio：室内乐是独奏形式同与其他演奏者合奏形式的完美结合。你虽然是一个独立的人，但你并非独自一人。人总是会无可避免的和其他人在一起。就像在家里一样。你有父亲、母亲和孩子，等我们长大了，孩子就会成为父亲和母亲。这也是室内乐想要阐明的观点。
为了听者更容易接受，从海顿和莫扎特开始聆听室内乐是很明智的选择。比如他们的钢琴三重奏和弦乐四重奏都很值得一听。不过就像有的人喜欢麻婆豆腐（Mapu Tofu，编者按：我去，麻婆豆腐这个都知道！），而有的人并不喜欢。（还是要取决于自己的喜好。）我喜欢听浪漫的乐曲，如门德尔松和勃拉姆斯。
A：In China's classical music performance market, chamber music is not very important,but solo , symphony and opera are usually more popular than chamber music.Many audience, even professional music students, do not understand the specific meaning of the word chamber music, what is chamber music?If a man know nothing about chamber music,how to contact the chamber music from the very beginning?Could you give some advice like recommending some composers or music albums to the beginners?
A：Chamber music is the perfect combination between solo playing and playing with other players. You are an individual but always together with other people. It`s like in a family. You have a father a mother and the children and when we get older the children become father and mother. It´s like in chamber music.
For easy listening it`s good to start with Haydn and Mozart. The Piano Trios and String Quartetts. It´s such a matter of taste some people love Mapu Tofu and some don`t.
I love to listen to the romantic pieces such as Mendelssohn and Brahms.
谷宇飞：就中国乐迷而言，我们经常会被认为，现在古典音乐的春天在中国，因为我们很多年轻人仍旧是音乐厅的主力，而欧洲或者美洲，则更多是上了年纪的人为主，是否如此？是否古典音乐以及并将持续在欧洲、美洲衰落下去？有什么办法可以挽救吗？如何看待新技术条件下，线上古典音乐欣赏与教学对古典音乐的推动呢？
The Eggner Trio：我认为中国的古典音乐发展前途光明。来听音乐会的年轻人越多越好。但事实上不仅仅是年轻人。每个人都应该去听古典音乐会，分享经验。这是我们的文化我们人类需要艺术才能在这个世界上生存。因此我认为我们可以竭尽所能做出各种形式的尝试——包括线上大师课、古典音乐试听、在线流媒体——将音乐这个美好的礼物献给这个伟大的世界。
Q：In terms of the Chinese fans, we often think that classical music’s spring is in China now, because there are more and more young people participate in classical music area.but in Europe or in the America, the major contributor are the aged.Is it classical music and will continue to decline in Europe and the americas?Do you think how to save it?What’s your opinions if we spread the classical music culture with the help of the internet or advanced technology by set online courses （like master classes or appreciation guidance）.
A：think China is absolutely on the bright track. The more young people come to the concert the better it is. But actually not only the young ones. EVERYONE should go to classical concerts and share the experience. It`s our culture and we humans need the arts to survive in this world. And yes i think that everything we can make - master classes internet, Cds, Online Streaming - to give this beautiful gift, music, to the world is great.
谷宇飞：就中国的室内乐教学而言，很多院校都有合奏课程的学分要求，但实际执行效果往往差强人意，很大程度上要依靠主课老师的个人意愿，来决定学生是否要在合奏课上投入较多精力，因为这往往被人看成会减少练习独奏的时间。能否介绍埃格纳钢琴三重奏在学习室内乐的过程中的精力分配？以及欧洲音乐学院是符合安排独奏与合奏课程的？特别是欧洲的老师对这两门课的看法有什么值得中国师生借鉴的地方？
The Eggner Trio：首先，学生应该对所进行学习演奏的每一部分音乐都尽可能多地练习。这不仅意味着对每个独奏乐曲的研究。室内乐或管弦乐作品的学习也是演奏者不可或缺的一部分。除此之外，对于音乐的学习不能仅仅局限于音乐。同时还要兼顾到音乐之外的其他领域，比如阅读艺术方面的书籍，欣赏绘画，或者学习其他一切能够有助于你成为一个更好的人的知识。文化素质的积累和学习演奏独奏作品同样重要。一个音乐家的音乐不能是空洞的，他要有表达的欲望从而借助音乐来分享他对生命的感受。如果音乐家少了这些素质，那么他的音乐就永远不会有那些精彩纷呈的时刻。
Q：As for chamber music teaching in China, many colleges have ensemble courses (Symphony or Chamber music）of credit requirements, but the actual execution effect is often poor, largely depends on the teacher's personal will, to decide how much effort would the students like to put on the ensemble class and because it is often seen as hold-up the time of practicing solo.
Can you introduce how do Eggner piano trio distribute the energy in studying chamber music?
And how do the music colleges in Europe arrange the solo and the ensemble courses?In particular, what do teachers in Europe think about the two courses?
First of all. Students should practice as much as the can in every parts of the studies. That means not only the Solo studies. Learning chamber music or orchestral works is also a part of it. But not only music. Also reading books education in arts, paintings everything that helps you getting a better person is as important as learning Solo Works. A musician wants to share what he experienced in his life. If he didn`t then there will never be a magic moment in music.
谷宇飞：埃格纳钢琴三重奏在演奏作品的时候，如何把握对作品本身含义的传达与自身情感的传递之间的平衡？特别是在演奏古典主义时期作品，如海顿、贝多芬，以及浪漫主义时期作品，如舒伯特、舒曼时，有什么不一样的要求吗？
The Eggner Trio：首先非常重要的是要认真研究音乐。想想作曲家创作这首音乐的原因以及这首音乐诞生在他人生的哪个阶段。然后学习如何通过乐器来表达音乐。最后用音乐讲述一个故事。你在音乐会台上演奏，观众席上的人们想听你讲故事。
Q：How do you grasp the balance between the meaning of the music and the expression of your own emotions when during the performance?
Especially in playing the classical period pieces, such as Haydn, Beethoven, and romantic period pieces, such as schubert and schumann, are there any different requirements?
First of all it is very important to learn the music very very carefully. Think about the pieces why he wrotes it and which period of his life.
Then learn the music on the instrument. And finally tell a story with the music. It is YOU who is playing the concert and people in the audience want to hear you story.
谷宇飞：最后一个问题，人和乐器是一种什么关系？为何乐器能够表达语言无法表达的东西？
The Eggner Trio：因为音乐从不做出任何评判，它无言却胜似雄辩。此中有真意，欲辨已忘言。这将是音乐中永恒的未解之谜。
Q：Last question, what is the relationship between human and Musical Instruments？Why can an instrument express something that the language cannot express?
A：Because music is never judging. And everyone feels the emotion without knowing what is going on exactly。That will always be the mistery in music.
室内乐专题：1、贝多芬说：“这是一首无愧于我名字的作品”丨室内乐欣赏专题（一）；2、海顿弦乐四重奏《骑士》的作品风格和演奏分析丨室内乐欣赏专题（二）；3、莫扎特弦乐四重奏代表作欣赏丨室内乐欣赏专题（三）；4、聆听肖邦为大提琴和钢琴所写的作品丨室内乐欣赏专题（四）；拉赫玛尼诺夫《悲歌》钢琴三重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（五）；肖斯塔科维奇弦乐四重奏创作简介丨室内乐欣赏专题（六）；不可错过的莫扎特七首钢琴三重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（七）；世界最优秀独奏家不会忽视室内乐训练丨室内乐欣赏专题（八）；美艺三重奏的贝多芬《“大公”三重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（九）；聆听海顿《临终七言四重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（十）；他默默无闻，却创作了100多部弦乐四重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（十一）；这首钢琴三重奏是勃拉姆斯室内乐的精华丨室内乐欣赏专题（十二）；钢琴、小提琴和大提琴的对话悠闲动人，每次聆听都被深深感动丨室内乐欣赏专题（十三）；闷骚的极致，聆听勃拉姆斯《第三钢琴三重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（十四）；你被舒伯特带上一条小路，去拣拾一路散落乡野间的欢愉丨室内乐欣赏专题（十五）；聆赏四重奏，才是欣赏西方古典音乐的极致丨室内乐欣赏专题（十六）；“这是勃拉姆斯的爱情旋律，为了他20岁时就深爱着的女性—克拉拉”丨室内乐欣赏专题（十七）;勃拉姆斯从小就喜欢圆号，并以演奏圆号来安慰母亲丨室内乐欣赏专题（十八）；因为勃拉姆斯的缘故，单簧管永远染上了秋日的怀旧感觉丨室内乐欣赏专题（十九）;舒曼的三首钢琴三重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十）；克罗默尔的长笛四重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十一）；舒曼 《降E大调钢琴五重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十二）；雅纳切克的《“情书”弦乐四重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十三）；贝多芬到底有多少钢琴三重奏丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十四）；莫扎特钢琴三重奏作品研究丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十五）；如果说交响乐是宣言；钢琴奏鸣曲是独白；那么室内乐是什么？在这首乐曲中，我们看到了处于人生最鼎盛时期的莫扎特丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十六）；克拉拉说：“这是舒曼所有作品中，能够温暖我心深处、从头到尾都能让我喜悦无比的一个”丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十七）;钢琴的华丽+小提琴的优雅+大提琴的伤感=门德尔松《第一钢琴三重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十八）；贝多芬最后的弦乐四重奏《第十六弦乐四重奏》丨室内乐欣赏专题（二十九）；险遭夭折的布鲁克纳室内乐丨室内乐欣赏专题（三十）；舒伯特《降B大调钢琴三重奏》D.898 丨室内乐欣赏专题（三十一）
【本公号原创翻译，欢迎打赏支持翻译】：1、八十岁时论阿劳丨论阿劳的演奏艺术；2、八十五岁论阿劳丨他的演奏何以伟大？3、钢琴家特里福诺夫专访丨“我在游泳池里练琴”；4、十五问王羽佳丨“演出”对你意味着什么？5、王羽佳访谈丨“穿长裙？待我四十岁！”6、王羽佳专访丨她赢得了没有参加的“比赛”！7、采访阿格里奇丨“音乐必须是自然流露的事情！” 8、帕尔曼追忆海菲兹丨“这么多小提琴家都试图模仿他，但他们的演奏却成了活生生的讽刺。”；9、肖邦大赛访傅聪丨“这个比赛没有完美的玛祖卡。” 10、韩国钢琴家赵成珍访谈丨“如果我遇见肖邦……”；11、憨豆先生采访郎朗丨谈肖邦以及古典音乐普及；12、古稀之年克莱默访谈丨谈《克莱默版贝多芬协奏曲》（亨勒出版社）；13、“奥伊斯特拉赫经常鼓励我，去寻找属于自己的声音”丨“当代怪杰”吉顿·克莱默访谈；14、“指挥家”李云迪访谈丨“音乐源自内心，这就是为什么即便我们一遍遍地弹奏相同的曲子，表演依然不是机械化的原因。” 15、郎朗弟子马克西姆·朗多访谈丨“郎朗对所有事物的热情深深感染着我，当我们在一起演奏时，可以感受到创造出的音乐竟然如此欢乐！” 16、肖邦“迷妹”阿格里奇论肖邦《第一钢琴协奏曲》丨“我多么渴望去亲眼看到肖邦怎样弹琴！”